An Interview with Bob Carlson

by Jenny Chi

 

Bob Carlson is an award winning audio producer, musician and broadcaster. He’s the host and producer of UnFictional, a weekly program of unusual stories and compelling personal documentaries airing on KCRW radio, and podcast on KCRW.com. During his long career at KCRW, he served as director of production and shaped the station’s unique sound as a music engineer, DJ and radio drama creator. His work has also been heard on NPR, the BBC and many other places.

Bob took time out to talk to us about his roots, his work, his criteria for great broadcast storytelling, and his most memorable aired stories.

We’re very privileged to have Bob teaching Radio Storytelling at Writing Pad!

 

1. How did you get your start in audio producing?

I actually studied radio in college (Emerson College in Boston). After that I worked at some commercial radio stations as a DJ. At one time I worked at one of those radio stations that look like a shack in the middle of the desert. During that time I was always drawn to the production aspect of the job; working in the studio, making programs and commercials. Eventually I started at KCRW, first as a volunteer, then as a recording engineer and finally Director of Production.

 

2. You produce the show UnFictional, a program of real-life stories and documentaries told by talented independent writers and performers. What do you look for in a story when you are choosing what to air on your show?

I look for stories that have a viscerally interesting topic, like crime, secrets, mysteries, obsessions, or life changing situations. I also like characters that live in a world that I’ve always wondered about, like bathroom attendants, mariachis, or nuclear missile launch officers. I like stories that have twists and surprises, that don’t go in the direction you’re expecting.

Funny stories are great, of course, but I particularly like stories that feel human. They humor AND emotion. I like the listener to feel like they’ve been through something significant with the character, like a good novel or a short story.

 

3. What is the difference between broadcast and performed storytelling?

It depends on the storyteller, but the main difference is probably the dynamics of the performance. When you’re on stage, you’re standing in front of a group of people and you have to project enough energy to command attention. Big is better, big laughs and big moments. On stage you’re trying to create a communal experience for the audience, and the energy you create in the room is part of the experience.

A story on the radio is more like telling someone a story over dinner, or even whispering in their ear. People are often listening to the radio or a podcast when they’re alone, or at least isolated from the world by wearing headphones. Performances can be more understated and subtle. Rather than creating a group experience, you’re practically being a voice in someone’s head, so you can tap more directly into their emotions and personal memories and experiences.

 

4. You also host UnFictional, and have had various on-air broadcasting experiences. How do you think these hosting experiences have influenced your career as a radio producer?

There is a ton of interesting audio work that goes on at KCRW, and I’ve done it all. I mixed live performances for the music shows, recorded and edited hundreds of talk shows. Having all that practice of listening to voices and hearing people tell stories gave me a good sense of what works and what doesn’t.

Also, at one time KCRW even produced radio dramas and story series’. That’s how I realized that often the most compelling type of storytelling on the radio is simply a single talented person telling a great story.

 

5. How did you come up with the idea for UnFictional?

One of my closest colleagues over my many years at KCRW has been Jennifer Ferro, who is now general manager. She and I were longtime fans of the work of independent radio producers. So in 2010 she asked me to put together an outlet to highlight great work, and create new stuff.

 

6. Before working on UnFictional, you served as KCRW’s Director of Production. What creative direction did you take the radio station to and how did you determine that?

The biggest thing that happened while I was Production Director was the explosion of digital technologies for production. As a producer, all of a sudden you had incredible flexibility and capabilities. Now, one person could create intricately produced work that wasn’t even possible before.

Because of this, my contribution was to add an emphasis on craft and quality. We outfitted the studios with new equipment and used advanced techniques. The result was that our live music performances now often sound as good as studio recordings. Plus we were able to craft our interviews more, keep the good stuff and get rid of the boring stuff. All done more quickly and effectively. Plus we were able to start producing sophisticated documentary work, which ended up as an important step toward the kind of work I’m doing on UnFictional.

 

7. What advice would you give to DJs and hosts hoping to break into the field of radio producing?

No breaking-in necessary, just go and do it! The tools you need to do audio work are so cheap now, that if you have a passion for it, the cost of entry is low. It’s also vital to listen to a lot of the great work being done on the radio and podcasts nowadays. Once you’ve developed a style and you have work you want to share, there are many ways to distribute your work online.

 

8. What was the most memorable story that aired on UnFictional?

 

I get so deeply entrenched in the details of producing the stories for my program that I barely forget any of them. That said, one of my most memorable moments happened when I was first developing the show. At the time I had a vague idea of what the tone of the show should be, but I probably wouldn’t have been able to articulate it.

A friend of mine invited my wife and I to a literary reading. While I was there I saw a writer named Dave White read a story he’d written. He was direct and matter of fact, almost a little scary. At the same time though, he projected a vulnerability that made it clear he had suffered plenty of psychological wounds in his life. Most importantly he was freaking hilarious. Immediately I could see the tone of my show defined right in front of me. And in fact, Dave White was on an early episode of my show, and several others since.

 

9. Can you give us a preview of the special techniques for selecting and producing stories that participants will learn in your class?

A good story will have something at stake, and say something that people can identify with on some level. It shouldn’t be a one-joke story, mean spirited or silly. Even a simple or funny story can say something profound.

Writing for radio should sound more like talking than writing. A listener can’t go back and re-read if they missed something. Radio writing should use clear, short declarative sentences, complicated sentence structures are for print.

Thank you so much for that informative interview, Bob!

Catch Bob’s Radio Storytelling class at Writing Pad.

 

 

By Paula Sword Orr and Dalia Martinez

 

If there is anyone who knows who to make a true story exciting, it’s Brett Paesel. Brett has written the Los Angeles Times bestselling memoir, “Mommies Who Drink: Sex, Drugs, and Other Distant Memories of an Ordinary Mom” (Warner Books) where she turned the drudgery of parenthood into high comedy. “Mommies Who Drink” was selected as an Elle Magazine Must Read, a hot summer pick in Entertainment Weekly, and one of “Summers’ Hottest Reads” in People Magazine. The Boston Globe proclaimed the book “honest, affectionate, and smartly written. . . real, and laugh-out-loud funny.”

 

Whether she’s writing about financial hardships, insufferable Mommy and Me parties, or the artist’s life, you can find Brett’s stories, essays, and articles in The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, Salon.com, More magazine, Self and other places. Brett has also written television pilots for HBO, ABC, Fox, WB, Lifetime, and Nick at Nite.

 

Lucky for us, she’ll be teaching a Memoir Class at starting Sun. 2/11. Sign up before it’s full!

 

Brett sat down with us to chat about what makes memoirs and personal essays worth reading and what subjects she refuses to touch.

 

1. Why did you decide to write a memoir and how did you get it published?

 

I was writing short autobiographical pieces about my life for a writing class. After I had a few written, I read them out loud in spoken word venues around town. At one of these shows, a literary manager came up to me and said, “I think that this is a book and a TV show.” I remember telling my mother that a manager wanted to read the rest of my work. She was very suspicious, telling me that he was probably hitting on me. I was six months pregnant at the time, and pretty sure that the manager’s interest in my work was legit! Anyway, he got me a lit agent in New York and, after HBO bought a show based on my book proposal, I sold the book. It was a wild ride and pretty unusual as far as these things go. Nothing in my life has gone so smoothly before or since!

 

2. You have an impressive list of publishing credits. When did you start writing essays and how did you break in?

 

Publications approached me after reading my book, although I did sell three or four before the book came out. I think that writing in a humorous vein gave me an edge. It’s less true now, but at the time humorous pieces about parenting were rare. It was at a time when there was still a preciousness about being a mother and the beautiful, life-fulfilling act of raising a child. Frankly, I love being a parent, but that kind of earnestness can make for pretty dull reading.

 

3. Now that you’ve written a bestselling memoir, what do you think the elements of a good memoir are?

 

Unflinching honesty. Having something real to say. Your work cannot simply be about this “cool,” “funny,” or “horrific” thing that happened. It has to address a universal truth. Mine, for example, was about reclaiming my pre-baby youth: a journey that I discovered to be impossible. The narrator has to learn something throughout the book. In that respect, a memoir should be treated like a novel — with all of the narrative arcs that keep the reader engaged.

 

Good memoirs also have structures that work for the story. That can take the form of letters or a condensed timeline. The structure serves the message.

 

And, mostly, the narrator must be accessible to the reader. New writers often forget to put themselves into the story and let us in on their thinking. They often tell the story from an almost omnipotent POV. People read memoir because they want to connect to the narrator. If you haven’t got that, you don’t have a story.

 

4. What was your inspiration for your memoir “Mommies Who Drink”? Do you think that memoirs must focus on harrowing experiences to be effective?

 

My inspiration for “Mommies” was my own desperation for stories about parenting that related to my own. I felt completely isolated and lost. I wanted to give my baby back. I also wanted to read Sedaris-like humor relating to parenting. I couldn’t find it out there, so I decided to write it myself.

 

I don’t think that memoirs need to focus on harrowing experiences. However, they do need to have high stakes, something at risk. To that end, writers need to zero in on conflict and theme — just like a novel. Sometimes it’s harder in memoir because it’s difficult to be objective about your own life.

 

5. You write a lot about your kids and life as a mom. Are there any topics that are off limits? Did you have to exaggerate or enhance any real life events to make them story worthy?

 

I exaggerate because I am a humorist. This can bite you in the ass sometimes. I wrote an article for Salon once about forgetting my youngest’s birthday every year because it’s smack dab between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Truth is that we do forget until about a week ahead and we scramble around creating a party. For the article, I shortened the time frame and described the scramble as happening the day before. The article was absurd enough that I assumed readers would understand the comic conceit. Many did. But I got an outpouring of snarky “You suck as a parent” comments, too.

 

I would not write anything that would purposely embarrass my kids and, in general, I’m not mean-spirited — even though I’m a humorist. The character I’m always hardest on is myself. I’m the biggest idiot in the room. My work is almost always about my own incompetence and fears — not others’.

 

6. You’ve gotten many excerpts of your books published as essays. How do you figure out what qualifies as a stand alone piece? Do you have to adjust these pieces to transform them into publishable essays?

 

I do have to adjust. Articles are more formulaic. The writer needs to let the reader know what the piece is about pretty quickly. The narrator has to learn something within the piece. And it all has to be done under 2000 words. I usually target a good story and consider all those elements. The message can sometimes be altered to fit a particular publication.

 

7. How do you decide something is worth writing about?

 

If it makes me laugh out loud just thinking about it. If it embarrasses me. Or if it makes me cry. When any of those elements are in play, I assume I’ve hit on something that is universal in the human condition.

 

I like big themes: “betrayal,” “redemption,” “loss.”

 

8. What will students learn in your classes?

 

For my personal essay class, students will learn everything they need to know to write and publish an essay. For my memoir class, I tend to look at what students’ needs are first. Each class is different. The first class is all about getting on the same page with certain concepts. I do some generative exercises, but mostly my writing exercises are craft-based. I can work with all levels of experience. And it’s always interesting to me to see how classes gel and become their own working entity. I think my strongest suit is in teaching through notes — giving notes that everyone can learn from.

 

In brief, students learn craft, structure, different techniques for threading theme, how to mold their story into a readable narrative, and how to develop their narrator as a character. I also do generative exercises for those who are still looking for their story.

 

9. What advice do you have for aspiring writers?

 

Read, read, read. Read stuff that is like yours. Read closely to see how writers do the stuff that still puzzles you. Take a class that opens your mind, gives you pragmatic tools and inspiration, and kicks your ass a bit. Turn off your inner critic and dare to tell the story that you have obviously been burning to tell.

 

Don’t forget to sign up for Brett’s Memoir Class at Writing Pad starting Sun. 2/11 before it’s full!